Tuesday, January 11, 2011

Respect Men!

This image is making it's way around the blogs and just like others, I have to comment.

It's part of a campaign to engage boys/men in the fight against domestic violence.
"As a father, coach, mentor or a male friend, men have the opportunity – and responsibility – to teach boys to respect girls and women. They’re watching; they’re waiting; they’ll listen."
That is all very nice, but a few things need to be pointed out:

1. There is this assumption that respect is something women are entitled to by simply being a woman. They don't have to earn it through good behavior or by being a lady. Men are to respect women no matter what. If one wants to use such a blanket definition, then men too should be respected no matter what. Men should be respected when they behave badly and when they don't act like gentlemen. But of course, we all know that will never happen, because a man "has to earn a woman's respect"; we hear that often enough, but women never have to earn a man's respect. 

Plus, if we are applying respect equally, who is out there teaching girls/women to respect boys/men? Insert crickets playing here......

2. Imagine the same image with a girl wearing a shirt that said, "awaiting instructions" and on the side there was a list that said:
  • Be a good wife
  • Stay at home with your children
  • Cook me dinner 
  • Respect men
We all know this would be an outrage! It would be deemed sexist and oppressive amongst many other things. Yet here we are telling men that it is OK for them to take orders/instructions from women.  "But, but, but, that's because men gave women instructions for hundreds of years. It's our turn now to for men to take instruction from us". Will that ever get old? How long do women have to be 'free', before things become truly equal; with the same definition of respect applied to men as it is for women. This shows that its not about applying standards equally, but about women having 'power'. If it's about equality, women, then stop the "men did it first game", and if someone were to create a similar "Respect Men" image, let them have their say.

3. Why exactly do we think boys/men are watching, waiting, and listening? I guess because they should have it drilled into them by now that women rule them. I think that assumption says a lot about the social conditioning our boys/men have been through. Such socially conditioned boys and men will now blindly follow any feminist or progressive cause.

On a related note, we know that if girls/women were told to respect men, they would NOT be watching, waiting, and listening, because that too has been drilled into them. "Don't watch, wait, or listen for men to do or tell you anything."

H/T: Rex Patriarch

50 comments:

A Light Shines In The Darkness said...

I completely agree with all of your points. The only issue I ever get concerned with is domestic violence, which is what this ad is apparently supposed to help combat. I agree that women should be ladies and EARN respect, as well as give respect to me. I also agree that the ideal way to respect a man is to keep his home and children. However, in the case of domestic violence, I get... not confused, but torn I guess. Women are the physically weaker sex, and a (gentle)man shouldn't use his superior strength to physically abuse his wife/children. Perhaps the makers of the ad should use a different word besides "respect" in this aspect. Certainly beating your wife isn't showing her respect, true. However the ad also implies that beating your wife is the natural OUTCOME of not respecting her, which is false. Maybe the ad should simply say "Finish your homework. Don't beat women." instead?

Anonymous said...

Respect men? In this country thats laughable. Anyway Im canceling my satellite tv once my contract runs out. Watching tv tonight i saw in an episode they mutilate a mans genital. Its portrayed as lighthearted fun. Ive had it, especially with AW and with all Americans in general. If If people find this entertaining I dont know what to say. This country could burn to the ground and I personally wouldnt care because we deserve it.
Walter

a girl said...

The above post mentioned that women are the physically weaker sex. While this is true, women are however more likely to escalate the argument and are more likely to use objects when fighting or employ others to do the assault (Which interestingly enough does not get recorded as “domestic violence”).

We should actually just get rid of the whole domestic violence industry. We already have laws for assault, murder etc. And assault should be assault no matter if you are a spouse or a stranger. The whole industry is just a way of keeping the “sex war” going. As you can see with posters like this. If they were at all interested in lowering violence they would have left out the sex completely.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely! Fighting against domestic violence is a very important thing. Anyone who has seen the bruised, broken women and children in a shelter would know that. Women are physically weaker, and so are children, so it is important to drive home the message that men should not take advantage of their superior strength.

Jennifer said...

"Maybe the ad should simply say "Finish your homework. Don't beat women." instead?"

Um, well no. Decent men don't beat women, and respect isn't always a given on the other hand.

Laura, why do you think the guy meant that MEN are watching, waiting and listening? He said boys; I think he meant kids are doing those things, waiting for a man to teach them. Plus, telling kids to be obedient and eat their vegetables isn't the same as telling a wife what to do, so I don't think that's a fair comparison or has anything to do with sexism. This campaign isn't sexist, it's good and true. So is respecting men, but I don't see why this campaign would result in a negative reaction from anybody.

Elusive Wapiti said...

"The only issue I ever get concerned with is domestic violence, which is what this ad is apparently supposed to help combat. "

Except that the agency that produced and fielded this ad seems not to care about the DV that women commit...which is about half of all DV.

I'd welcome some ads that instruct girls to do the same...to study hard, learn their lessons, respect men, and await instructions from the males in their lives.

Don't think I'll see any ads like this from an agency that features the Duluth Wheel, though. It's clear to me they consider DV a male-on-female phenomenon, and proceed accordingly.

Justin said...

Wow, great points. Where is the ad campaign to "Respect Men".

In all honesty, an ad campaign designed to lower DV, should be directed at women, with that exact message: "Respect Men."

A woman doesn't get hit because a boy was raised to disrespect women.

She gets hit 99% of the time because she is a loudmouth, argumentative shrew who keeps verbally, emotionally, and (usually) physically tormenting a man for not doing what she wants him to do.

Teaching girls to actually respect men, you know, like as in, talking to them respectfully, would do wonders when it comes to ending DV.

Justin said...

Of course, the real obstacle is the feminist "Men Bad, Women Good" paradigm. Until they can treat women like adults who are responsible for their situations, all their programs are junk, because they don't get at true causes.

Asking the simple and obvious question: what do women do to contribute to DV, is simply not part of their framework, though that would probably be the most important question to ask if they really wanted to reduce DV rates.

I'll believe they are serious about reducing DV when their poster shows a picture of a girl, and says "Don't wave your finger in his face... Don't physically block his path... Don't insult his manhood... Don't push or slap him..."

Those reasons are certainly much more germane to actual outbreaks of DV than his generalized "level of respect for womankind".

Terry @ Breathing Grace said...

@ A Light Shine In the Darkness:

Yes, this ad is supposed to cub domestic violence. And yes, domestic violence is bad. The elephant in the room is that women commit domestic violence against men too.

Men are bigger and stringer than women and mencan do more physical damage to women. The women who commit this crime against men do it ot husbands who refuse to retaliate with physical violence.

This is not all that uncommon. I have personally witnessed two marriages where the wife hit the husband and his code of "chivalry" coupled with his knowldge of how bad he would hurt her if he hit her, stopped him from reciprcating the violence he was receiving.

Women need to respect men and men need to respect women, because we are all human beings. Women decided a long time ago that they didn't want the special respect they received simply for being the weaker sex. We can't have it both ways.

MarkyMark said...

Women decided a long time ago that they didn't want the special respect they received simply for being the weaker sex. We can't have it both ways.

Ka-ka-kaboom! Terry NAILS it!

Anonymous said...

Wow, Laura. I can't believe you are allowing posts that say that violence is sometimes justified (for shrewish, nagging women). How low can you go?

Violence is sometimes OK? It depends on how the woman acts? Wow.

That viewpoint can take you into very dangerous territory.

Either you are a person who hits women or you are not

Jennifer said...

Disrespect and bad relationships and views of women are exactly why wives are beaten; most abused wives have no idea how to fight their husbands. Abusers rarely have any slight justification for what they do; abusive wives have good husbands and the abusive husbands have silent wives. Amazing how many people are complaining because boys were told by men to respect women. I've heard it said that you should be able to stand up for men without the disclaimer that you stand up for women too. The opposite should also be true.

Jennifer said...

"Watching tv tonight i saw in an episode they mutilate a mans genital"

What show in God's Name was that??

That's an interesting point, girl, about keeping assault and getting rid of "domestic".

"As you can see with posters like this"

Meaning the poster of the kid wearing the shirt? Again, there's nothing wrong with that.

The Deuce said...

What strikes me about this ad is how counter-productive it is. The thought that comes to my mind when I read it is "Howsabout you stop trying to order me around, b****?" The cause of DV isn't a lack of respect for womankind, and bossing guys around and demanding respect certainly isn't likely to have a calming effect.

And, of course, as several commenters have pointed out, it completely ignores womens' role in DV, either in provoking it or committing it themselves.

Thag Jones said...

I really shouldn't be surprised, but that is just... o_O These government campaigns never do any good - just think of the "war on drugs" or all the anti-poverty measures that only seem to increase poverty.

That poster looks like a joke. Hard to believe some brainiacs got paid to come up with such twaddle.

Thag Jones said...

Oh, they forgot one instruction: Put balls in some woman's purse.

Jennifer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A Light Shines In The Darkness said...

Maybe I'm thinking of domestic violence in a different sense than everyone else. I'm not thinking of a husband and wife get into a fight and the wife gets a slap across the face, the end. To me, that's not domestic violence, that's simply an isolated event in which an argument got out of hand. Men are aggressive creatures with tempers, and some (not ALL as some people here are implying) women like to nag, aggravate, and entice men to ire. I know there are plenty of women who would yell violence and demand a divorce in such a case, but that's not me, and that's not what I am thinking of with this ad (and I don't think the ad makers were either).

Instead I'm assuming a certain high level of violence. Drunk men who beat their wives *literally* for no reason, repeatedly. Or violence that happens often. Or violence that leaves bruises, marks, cuts, or scars. Or absolutely *ANY* violence to children (not counting spankings or such as violence, I'm talking punching your child in the mouth here).

That's what I think of when I think of domestic violence, and yes, that violence must be stopped.

And also, it makes me nervous to hear people speak of women acting in such a way as if they might actually *deserve* to get hit at all. While I understand some women are "nags" or what-have-you, I still can't believe that a wife would do anything (within reason) that would actually *merit* her husband hitting her. Christ was a very non-violent sort of guy, right? Turn the other cheek and all that. I can't believe He would look down from Heaven on a man and say "Good job for slapping your wife right then, she was just being so annoying!" *Even* if she were to hit her husband, I don't think he should hit her back! I'm sorry! He should handle the situation in another, calmer manner. It's too petty and childish to say, "well she hit me/insulted me/had dinner late/ruined my favorite shirt/won't shut up/etc. so I'm gonna slap her to teach her a lesson/make her shut up/retaliate/etc." As a husband who is supposed to be representing Christ in this Christ/Church relationship, the man should take a breath, calm himself, forgive his wife, and move forward into resolving the issue, not continuing it down the cycle of violence.

Although, I guess I can't really say much, because I'm not married. But I do know that I would not want my husband to beat me. Period. I will do my best not to provoke him, but I don't know if I'd want to marry a man who sees violence towards me as a viable option in an argument.

Jennifer said...

Light, you have nailed it! I think in DV in just the terms you do, and don't feel like you have to offer a disclaimer; violence is violence.

Jennifer said...

An edited version of an earlier comment (which I've removed)

"it completely ignores womens' role in DV"

That's because it's for BOYS. It's telling them to do their part, not avoid something they can't control. If you want to remind women and girls that they need to do THEIR part, like Laura, fine, but don't blame men for teaching boys to do what they need to as well.

"Hard to believe some brainiacs got paid to come up with such twaddle"

Unbelievable how some nice men are being ragged on because they're teaching boys, not girls, to do what's necessary of Christian men. The stand against drugs is more than necessary, btw.

"The cause of DV isn't a lack of respect for womankind"

That's exactly what it is, disrespect for women and often everyone else. Of course it's MORE than that, but that's definitely one of the roots.

"and bossing guys around and demanding respect certainly isn't likely to have a calming effect"

No, but the worst it usually earns from a non-violent man would be a slap; slapping isn't DV. DV is punching, beating, kicking, knocking down, none of which regular men do. If you're disrespected, stand up for yourself and take her down verbally a size or two; you don't knock her down and beat her up unless you have major issues. And don't worry Light, a normal man won't consider beating you as an option at all; moral men have strong principles. So strong, in fact, that many poor husbands who live with violent wives don't fight back because they know they could hurt them. Not to mention be charged for it.

Justin said...

Jennifer, I think you are handicapped by a severe lack of experience. You are just shooting so far off the mark, it is clear you have no real experience in this matter.

For one, slapping IS domestic violence.

For two, women physically attack their men all the time.

I'm glad you can't relate to it, good for you, but I have seen it personally, and heard countless other men relate the same story:

Women gone completely psycho out-of-control, screaming, punching, clawing, shreaking, etc.

In feminist unicorn land, women never do that, and men beat their women black and blue all the time, for no reason.

In real life, women tend to be overemotional, demanding, entitled, and have poor impulse control. In other words, women are every bit as bad as men. EVERY BIT. Women are not better than men in any single way. If you really think they are, you are brainwashed. Until you see women as true equals with men, your thinking about these matters is poisoned.

Women also tend to stay with the man who physically assaults them. Why is that? If you can't answer that question, you really shouldn't be talking about D.V.

Justin said...

And please understand, I am not saying a "mouthy" woman deserves to get hit.

But, if you are a teacher, say, and this little pipsqueak boy with a smart mouth keeps getting beaten up on the playground, what would you do to stop the beatings? You would certainly tell the other boys to stop hitting him.

But wouldn't you also advise the little smart aleck to stop provoking the other boys? Of course, you would, if you wanted to actually stop the violence. In fact, if the same little kid is always the one getting in fights, even if he is the one losing, you would actually have to punish that kid, since he is clearly the trouble maker. (when I was a jr high teacher, I had to deal with this exact situation, btw)

Inveighing the smart aleck to change his behavior is not saying "you deserve to get hit". It is saying, "if you want to stop getting hit, your best bet is to stop provoking others to want to hit you."

Now imagine you could communicate to only one party... To the boys on the playground, or the smart aleck, just one of them. Which target for communication strategy do you think would actually be more likely to reduce the violence:

A) telling the other boys "that everyone deserves equal respect on the playground"?

or B) telling the smart aleck that "boys are not angels, so stop provoking them."

A Light Shines In The Darkness said...

Wow, if I'm to be completely honest, this conversation is starting to scare me a little bit. I never thought I'd hear people legitimately defending the actions of violent men.

And yes, in defending men who hit their wives or children, you *are* saying they deserve to be hit. Otherwise you would be upset with the husband for hitting his wife/children without cause. But in continually bringing up women's "psycho out-of-control" behavior, you are saying that they deserve to be physically harmed and therefore defend the men who harmed them.

I'm not saying women don't *ever* hit their husbands. They are just as much in the wrong here, yes. But I find it extremely hard to believe that DV is done mostly by women. I really do.

But I feel like all of this is moot anyway. Like I said earlier, Christ taught extreme non-violence, and would not approve of a man hitting his wife even if she *did* hit him first. Or even if she clawed and scratched and spit at him. The law of the Old Testament was "eye for an eye" and very revenge-driven. But with the coming of Christ, a new form of justice was introduced. One in which you loved your enemies as if they were friends, and allowed a man to hit you but didn't retaliate. That's still the form of justice we have today, unless Jesus has told y'all something else that He hasn't told the rest of us.

Point blank: violence between spouses is wrong, no matter who does it or who *starts* it. A good man, when presented with a difficult wife, would handle the situation in a non-violent manner. A good man wouldn't provoke his wife to hit him. A good woman wouldn't retaliate against her husband if he hit her. A good woman wouldn't provoke her husband to hit her.

And plenty of women stay with abusive husbands longer than the should for multiple reasons. She is obviously going to be afraid of him and what he will do to her if she tries to leave him. There might be children involved that he might try to take away from her. She might not have anywhere else to go. She might not have a job, or a way to support herself and her children on her own. There are lots of reasons.

Jennifer said...

I'm not handicapped by anything, Justin, especially not knowledge of cruelty. After all, you're talking to a woman yourself. I've been around females all my life.

If slapping is DV, I guess husbands more severly abused by their wives have no physical recourse? DV is considered very serious and illegal; if you can be arrested for slapping your spouse, we've got bigger problems than I imagined, so I do not define it as true DV.

As for your allegory of kids on the playground, I find that inaccurate and somewhat troubling. Kids tend to hit each other harder than slapping, and marriage should have no comparison to boys fighting each other. Along with this, there's the fact that, again, sharp words should be matched by sharp words, not fists. Lastly and most importantly, you're implying that women get hit/suffer from DV because they're loudmouths? This is blatantly untrue. Of course, you define slapping as DV, so that implication isn't nearly as disturbing as it COULD be. But another example you used was a woman shrieking, clawing and punching; if a man slapped such a woman, it wouldn't be DV at all, it'd be self-defense. Such violent behavior cannot be compared with a woman provoking a man to hit her by using words, whether it's slapping or punching, whether you define slapping as true DV or not. But the biggest problem with your allegory is this: your implication that respecting women means respecting abusers, that all women are like the loudmouth kid on the playground. All wives are NOT like this, and your assertion thus is wrong and emotionally dangerous to pass on to men. Making such a comparison or assertion is like a feminist seeing a woman tell girls to respect men and react by saying, "This means abusive men too! Girls, don't listen!" Would the woman teaching girls thus have meant abusive men? No, of course not, and the men who made this poster were NOT teaching boys to respect abusive women. This is a disclaimer that shouldn't even have to be made about respecting other people. Not all men attack their wives and not all wives attack their husbands.

"Women also tend to stay with the man who physically assaults them. Why is that?"

Because they're messed up. Because they love them. Because some women think it's their fault. Because they're scared to leave. Because they think it'll get better. Because they've been taught they'll burn in hell if they leave (yes, I've seen this). All sorts of reasons, many weird psychological ones.

"Women are not better than men in any single way. If you really think they are, you are brainwashed. Until you see women as true equals with men, your thinking about these matters is poisoned"

LOL Believe me, I see them as total equals: equal chance to be good or evil, equal intelligence (if often different ways of thinking) and equally Godly, though again often in different ways. They are equal, but not the same.

"And please understand, I am not saying a "mouthy" woman deserves to get hit"

Thank you for confirming your meaning.

Anonymous said...

"I never thought I'd hear people legitimately defending the actions of violent men."

I never thought I'd hear people do that, either.

I've put up with all kinds of injustices and bad behavior from people, and never hit any of them.

Jennifer said...

I agree with you, Light and Anon. But do know that DV has been committed a lot by women.

Anonymous said...

"I agree that women should be ladies and EARN respect, as well as give respect to me."

I try to treat everyone with respect. I don't wait and see if they have earned it.

I'm surprised that there is a blog post and 26 comments about something as noncontreversial as treating women with respect.

The guys here are not acting much like the men in the "olden days" that they miss so much.

In those days, men gave ladies their seat without first checking to see if she deserved it. They held the door for all women, not just those whose behavior had passed their tests. They raised their hats to all women, not just those who were sufficiently submissive.

Anonymous said...

Seems like the guys are saying

MY good behavior is dependent on how a woman acts. I can't control it, and I don't want too. If a woman acts badly, then I have to, also. It all depends on how schrewish she is.

A gentleman is a gentleman, no matter who he is dealing with, guys.

And "she hit me first" is for three-year olds.

Anonymous said...

"
In feminist unicorn land, women never do that, and men beat their women black and blue all the time, for no reason. "

I've volunteered in hospitals for many years. I've seen many battered women with life-threatening injuries. I've never yet seen a battered man hospitalized at all.

The Deuce said...

If slapping is DV, I guess husbands more severly abused by their wives have no physical recourse? DV is considered very serious and illegal; if you can be arrested for slapping your spouse, we've got bigger problems than I imagined, so I do not define it as true DV.

Slapping is considered DV by our courts if a man does it to a woman, but not vice-versa. However, if you were to count womens' slapping as DV, you'd have to say that women commit it far more often than men.

Wow, Laura. I can't believe you are allowing posts that say that violence is sometimes justified (for shrewish, nagging women). How low can you go?

I can't believe that you all can't figure out the difference between saying that you shouldn't provoke someone and saying that it's okay to retaliate when provoked.

That's exactly what it is, disrespect for women and often everyone else. Of course it's MORE than that, but that's definitely one of the roots.

No, it isn't. When a guy gets violent, it's not because he "disrespects" the other person. It's because he's enraged. Amount of respect for the other party really has nothing to do with how angry he is. Men hit other men far more often than they hit women. Is that because men don't have enough respect for men?!

The correct message to boys would be "Don't beat women because they're weaker than you". The "respect women" thing is a feminist canard. The people making these sorts of ads just can't stop themselves from shoehorning everything bad that happens to women into the "need for female empowerment" mold. As a reflection of feminist dogma, this ad is entirely mundane. As an attempt to cut down on domestic violence, it's useless at best.

Laura Grace Robins said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jennifer said...

"When a guy gets violent, it's not because he "disrespects" the other person. It's because he's enraged"

Um, nope, not when it comes to ABUSIVE men. I wasn't speaking of men who slap or get in fights with other men because they're provoked at all. The problem with some here is that you don't seem to tell the difference between abusive men who hit for no reason and men who do something, like slap, when they're provoked. And btw, there's a reason why we don't compare men who hit other men to men who hit women (whether they're provoked or not): the reason is simply that women are weaker, so if a man hit her, she wouldn't have the equal chance of fighting back fairly the way another man would. This is a reason, along with others, why most men instinctively won't punch women if angered.

Jennifer said...

To the last anon: abused husbands won't usually have the "battered" look that abused wives have. They could have scratches or deep cuts from knives or other sharp implements, for example.

Laura Grace Robins said...

This is just for my own clarification....for those who think respect is something given regardless if it is earned or just because we are humans, I ask you this: are we to respect evil dictators, terrorists, murderers, kidnappers, rapists, men who do actually beat women etc., etc,. OR on a lesser scales someone who cheats/lies to get ahead at work, corrupt politicians, gamers/PUAS, etc., etc?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just want to know...because if respect is not something to be earned, something that is a right via being a human, than it would make sense that women should respect their abusers, we should respect terrorists, we should respect the gamers, etc., etc.

Jennifer said...

I hope my own position has been clear: we are taught to respect people upon coming into contact with them. If we find them to be gamers, terrorists, rapists, beaters, manipulators, etc. then of course we cease respecting them. But it's a logical process: do we know if a person's like this upon meeting them? Are we automatically respectful to other people, or do we say, "Sorry, I can't respect you unless I know for sure that you're not a terrorist, rapist, liar, ect"? No, of course not; we act like human beings and treat them as such, until/unless they give us a reason to do otherwise. And we teach our children to do the same; we tell them to respect others without all the disclaimers, because this is the first course of action we as people should take. And because, for most people both adult and child, when the exceptions do come about, we instinctively know how to react. Kids sure as heck seem to.

Jennifer said...

On a lighter note, this topic reminded me of a scene from "Home Improvement", one of my favorite shows of all time. The main character, Tim Taylor, was disciplining his son for whacking an annoying male clown in a kid's restaurant. His kid responded, "Dad, you should have nailed that clown!" To which Tim responded, "Never hit anybody with makeup! That's the rule."

Anonymous said...

If I came at my husband, attacking, screaming, hitting, he'd restrain me till I was calm. If I didn't calm down, he'd leave the house. If I never calmed down, he'd leave me.

If my husband came at me, attacking, screaming, hitting--I'd be dead.

Obsidian said...

Hi Laura,
Saw Ferdi's post about your post and thought to come on over to give biggups, props and praise for writing such a good and timely piece. I've written something very similar:

"Women Are The New Men Now:
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/60425

I'll be sure to add a link in my post back to you and Ferdi's articles. Again, keep up the good work!

O.

Anonymous said...

"I've seen many battered women with life-threatening injuries. I've never yet seen a battered man hospitalized at all. "

Maybe that's because women bruise easily, while men do not. Ever thought about that? If a man throws an average punch against another man, it probably wouldn't be enough to knock him down or bruise him. If he throws that same punch against the average woman, he risks not only bruising her but also knocking her unconscious.

With that said, why are 50% of true DV cases (not the feminist broaden definition) committed by women, if they know it only requires a fraction of the force needed by the man to stop her? Because they know they can get away with it. I am not advocating violence against men or woman, but personal responsibility has to be taken too.

Laura Grace Robins said...

Obsidian,
Thank you :-)! Words such as those keep me doing my thing.

Anonymous said...

"I've seen many battered women with life-threatening injuries. I've never yet seen a battered man hospitalized at all. "

Maybe that's because women bruise easily, while men do not. Ever thought about that?"


These women weren't in the hospital for bruises.

Jennifer said...

"Maybe that's because women bruise easily, while men do not. Ever thought about that?"

Anon, your last paragraph was good, but for God's sake! She said BATTERED women with life-threatening injuries; you don't dismiss that with "oh, women bruise easily".

Anonymous said...

"This image is making it's way around the blogs "

"its". Not "it's".

Anonymous said...

This entire conversation makes me sick.

To the original post:

1. The first three thing you listed in the 'instructions' for young girls don't even compare to the instructions in the ad campaign.

2. The middle two you listed are merely a matter of *opinion* when it comes to what a woman should do. I know you don't believe that, but it just IS. What is NOT a matter of opinion is that men should not abuse women. End. Of. Story.

To your first point - yes, women should respect men. But the problem is we're addressing a larger consistent problem. It is women who are statistically most likely to suffer and DIE because of domestic violence. Of course it's preferable that a woman not treat a man like shit, but how many men die of this daily? Where are the crickets now?

If you think this is a matter of men taking instructions from women on how to behave, well I'm sorry. You're excusing a huge problem in your effort to go against anything a feminist might have to say. Not being violent toward women shouldn't be limited to 'feminists'.

The Deuce said...

Jennifer:

And btw, there's a reason why we don't compare men who hit other men to men who hit women (whether they're provoked or not): the reason is simply that women are weaker, so if a man hit her, she wouldn't have the equal chance of fighting back fairly the way another man would. This is a reason, along with others, why most men instinctively won't punch women if angered.

Exactly my point! It's a lack of respect - for a woman's physical acumen - that prevents men from hitting them. Ordering guys to "respect women" will have absolutely no effect on abuse. The issue of respect is irrelevant to the matter of abuse. It's a item of feminist dogma being inappropriately injected into an unrelated issue by people who see everything through the lens of feminist dogma.

The correct lesson to instill in guys to prevent them from beating women is not "respect women" but rather "don't attack the weak".

Anonymous Reader said...

Under the 1994 Violence Against Women Act, slapping is indeed DV.

So is shouting. So is "withholding resources", i.e. expecting a wife to ask her husband for money.

Bumping into her in the hallway can be DV. Pushing past her to get into a hospital room can be DV.

Any woman in the US can pick up the phone, dial 911, say "My husband scares me. I'm afraid" and have him arrested.

These are the facts.

Meanwhile, a woman can shoot her sleeping husband in the back with a shotgun, unplug the telephone in the room and let him bleed out to death -- and not go to prison.

This campaign is misandric.

Jennifer said...

Don't hit women out of a lack of respect for them? So men hit other men because they do respect them? No wonder we disagree on the meaning of logic, Deuce. Too different, are we.

Anonymous said...

http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/01/14/why-i-dont-respect-women/

kim B. said...

Respect like everything else is a two way street, Men crave respect and obedience. Women crave love and protection. When we Marry each other those feelings should be there already, then starting a home and family strengthen that bond. Today that recipe is hardly the norm in this the great land of freedom. Sometimes too much freedom is worse than being prisoners.

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