In my previous post, Justin brought up a good point:
"First, the Christian men that are “good guys” could use a little–what’s the word I’m looking for – ambition."
Hmm, which one of the traditional Christian virtues is that? Which Bible teaching instructs men to be ambitious about worldly pursuits?
In speaking about Paul, he says:
"He had ambition, first of all, that went high, verse 9. “We have as our ambition whether at home or absent to be pleasing to Him.” Just look at the phrase “to be pleasing to Him.” That separates spiritual ambition from sinful ambition. Paul never sought great things for himself, he always sought great things for God. The Apostle is like a violinist who cares not for the audience applause but for the smile of the master who taught him. He lived to please the Lord. Everything he did he did to the glory of the Lord."Basically the only ambition Christians (women included) should have is in pleasing the Lord, in pleasing HIM. This does NOT mean primarily pleasing women, as much as many would like. Christian ambition is not about pleasing women, feminists, men, the world, or even ourselves. This is what many will find so upsetting. I'm sure some will say that in pursuing worldly ambitions, you end up pleasing women and this in extension will please the Lord, but that is certainly a stretch. The aim should be God first and all others second. Paul did not seek great things for himself or others as the "Manning up" message forces Christian men to do. He rather sought great things for God. His focus was on Him rather than on the many hoops women and society can make a man jump through. If in a man's aim to please God he happens to end up with a successful career that benefits himself and family, that then is the best of both worlds. It is a backwards approach though to aim at pleasing the world first and then hope that God will be satisfied with whatever hoops you jump through.
“At the end of the day I don’t do what I do for your approval. My accountability really is not to you, it’s way beyond that. There is a higher court than any human court.”"In 1 Corinthians chapter 4 he really makes some very, very powerful statements about this. Verse 3, he says, “To me it’s a very small thing that I should be examined by you or by any human court.” It is a minor detail in my life to be examined by people. I really have little regard for what you think or what any human tribunal things. Any evaluation by people has very limited value to me."Now he’s not saying that in an unhealthy attitude. “I don’t care what you think” attitude which betrays some kind of open display of indifference. But he is simply saying, “At the end of the day I don’t do what I do for your approval. My accountability really is not to you, it’s way beyond that. There is a higher court than any human court.” He even goes on to say, “I don’t even examine myself, I’m conscious of nothing against myself, yet I’m not by this acquitted.”
I suspect Christian men do not hear that message enough and why would they as it competes and takes away attention from women and the world. It also is the complete opposite of the "manning up" message. "Manning up" is about doing things for human/societal approval. The motivations behind "Manning up" is not to "man up" for God, to please Him, its so women can get married and have their 'happily ever after'.
We are seeing a growing movement of men who are taking on the above attitude. Whether these men are Christian or not, it still sends a powerful message and cannot be ignored under the "manning up" banner. Men have ambitions, its just not towards women (and this is where the outrage stems). If the man is Christian, his ambition (if biblically understood) is in pleasing the Lord and if a man is not a Christian his ambitions may just be in pleasing himself in the interests of self-preservation (which cannot be judged as a bad thing if the man does not profess to being Christian).
"What motivates you? No earthly reward, no earthly honor, no earthly threat, no earthly possibility, no earthly circumstance, no earthly opportunity motivated Paul. He could take it all."By Kevin DeYoung's standard of ambition, looks like Paul would have been categorized as one unambitious, unmotivated dude. What motivates Christian men should not be pleasing women. The loss of earthly honor that may come from not "manning up" should be of no concern. Saying this will certainly get me in trouble with some traditionalists, but as mentioned above, I am not saying this for their approval.If "godly ambition" is called for, let it be just that--ambition towards pleasing God. Let it not be used in vain to push man's ambition towards pleasing the world.
9 comments:
It is the same in Yoga:
"Karma Yoga is essentially Acting, or doing one's duties in life as per his/her dharma, or duty, without attachment to results – a sort of constant sacrifice of action to the Supreme. It is action done without thought of gain. In a more modern interpretation, it can be viewed as duty bound deeds done without letting the nature of the result affect one's actions. Krishna advocates Nishkam Karma (Selfless Action) as the ideal path to realize the Truth. The very important theme of Karma Yoga is not focused on renouncing the work, but again and again Krishna focuses on what should be the purpose of activity. Krishna mentions in following verses that actions must be performed to please the Supreme otherwise these actions become the cause of material bondage and cause repetition of birth and death in this material world."
Lavazza
Great point and thanks for making it. The Christian man up stuff always includes "getting a good job" and getting married. You just don't see that in Jesus' ministry.
The undertow I suspect is that many women in churches have two types they are looking for (or both). The exciting dangerous type, or the super successful type. Without the later they are rationalizing themselves into dating a dangerous/exciting man by claiming there are no suitable partners at church. Then clergy hear this, and foolishly attempt to fix things by shaming the men. Church leaders are largly men who have joined the other team...enforcers who promote the opinions and agenda of women. Bennett’s articles of late are good examples of this type of thing.
Simple math also explains some of the unhappiness. Employers are making concerted efforts to ensure gender equity...it's getting very blatant and nearing quotas in white colar proffessions that still appeal to men. If women insist on higher status males you can quickly see how this just doesn't add up. Even if men were to "man up" they'd be artificially slowed down by the equity agenda.
Taylor
Our Pastor asked us this past weekend what our goal in life is? My husband and I both looked at each other and we said it was to please the Lord. The Pastor went on to say it should be to follow Jesus and make disciples. That was His last command given. If we all were discipling at least several others in the ways of God, that would greatly impact society for good, especially marriage.
Talking of ambition, Laura have you seen Gold Rush Alaska, a popular show about a group of christian men
Who try & dig their families out of poverty by mining the winters of alaska
It's not going to convert anyone, but its one of the few popular programs, which shows men praying & bonding under religion throughout the show
What I find interesting is the genuine, desperation & need shown by their wives for their husbands to succeed
Something you dont see in modern television
The social dynamics are fascinating to observe & the heavy machinery porn is pretty kwl too, if ure a male lol
Sometimes pagans have it more together than Christians.
Mother Shipton 16th century prophecies of a practising witch.
For in those wondrous far off days, The women shall adopt a craze To dress like men, and trousers wear And to cut off all their locks of hair. They’ll ride astride with brazen brow, As witches do on broomsticks now.
They’ll be a sign for all to see Be sure that it will certain be.
Then love shall die and marriage cease And nations wane as babes decrease.
And wives shall fondle cats and dogs And men live much the same as hogs.
I read the deyoung article and it sounds like a feminist woman wrote it. Especially near the end where he says something to the effect that women aren't searching for the perfect man but he has to have some ambition, some intellectual depth, pray with the kids...
Pardon me, but that's nonsense. Most women I know and these include professing Christians of all churches (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican) as long as we are talking about Western women--- will drop you like a hot potato for the guy who does NOT have ambition, does NOT have intellectual depth, does NOT pray with the kids or even pray at all ("why I know Im a christian John and he isnt but I can CHANGE him!")-- but who is a 'baaaaad boy' ---ie basically a scum of the earth type who is as real as a three dollar bill.
Some 'exciting' fool who treats her a little trashy and serves himself first at the expense of respecting her etc etc. And I'm not talking about some biker here--these types have their counterparts in each category of men --businessmen, lawyers, doctors, janitors it doesn't matter.
Now if you SAY this to a westernized feminist woman she'll say anything from 1)you're wrong to 2) there is something wrong with you--you're too much of a 'nice guy', to 3)
But I've spoken to hundreds of women over the last few years about this and without fail--they come to admit they want the 'bad boy' over the good man with the qualities DeYoung mentioned.
This basically means hell is not filled with men only but many many women. I used to think girls were somehow exempt from the wrath of God (feminist brainwashing that seeped into my brain as a kid because men are pigs and women are sugar and spice etc).
But to God there is no such thing. He will judge this generation of sinful women as much as he judges sinful men. And it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
no 3) was ---INSERT INSULT HERE---
John the Copt
Jesus was unemployed wasn't he?
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